Item UF1994.023.c226 - Interview with John Liss of Sangudo

• Sound recording

2 audio files, mp3, duration: 0:31:57 min. and 0:31:58 min.

This item contains one interview with John Liss of Sangudo.
Introduction by the interviewer: John Liss is in a hospital in Edmonton after surgery, he is an activist not only in Polonia matters. He talks at the beginning about Norman Louis, the interviewer should write to him. Mr. Louis is an expert on a kind of wheat which came to Canada from Poland. He (Liss) wrote an article on that. The wheat came probably from Gdańsk to Scotland and later to Ontario, probably not from Ukraine, he had to clarify that. Mr. Liss continues to talk about Karol Horecki, but the interviewer intervenes as she has written a book on him.
The interviewer asks Mr. Liss when he came to Alberta for the first time. He came from Milwaukee to Winnipeg to work and to get acquainted with horticulture. He wanted to get a "preemption to British Colombia". In 1911, he worked as a printer for the "American Echo", then as a journalist for the "Kurier Polsko". He mentions Michał Gruszka who fought a battle for equal rights for the Catholic Church as German and Irish bishops discriminated the Polish clergy. M. Gruszka was the brother Wacław Gruszka, the author of book on Poles in America. M. Gruszka was sent to the poorest Polish colony (in Wisconsin), as German and Irish bishops boycotted the Polish clergy. They asked what newspaper they were reading. If they read the "American Echo" they couldn't get a job. He talks about the Bankhead parish and a priest called Seal. Polish miners from Bielsko-Biała who were reading the Kurier were told by Seal the the paper was "godless". The miners were nice people. Liss wrote an article on the priest Seal, he was told afterwards that he will end in hell.
When he went to Alberta prior to WW I - did he meet Poles in handicraft, trade, or not at all? Liss says that he met Franciszek Hraby, a mechanic of machines used in banks, an important position. He was of Polish descent but a part of his family were Czechs in
Winnipeg. He identified as a Pole, was a Polish patriot. A second person, he met him only once, had studied at Polytechnic University of Gdańsk, he had a German name, but spoke pure Polish, he was an honest Pole. He forgot name (later he recalled the name: Hartwig). His man sold agricultural machines to Poles and Ukrainians, he met him in Edmonton in 1914 after the outbreak WW I.
One of the Poles in West Lake had a business, he forgot his name, his daughter is still living there. I was a long, old-Polish name.
The interviewer asks about the second wave of migration in the 1920s: Did he meet Poles who weren't peasants or laborers? He mentions Andy (Adolf) Solikowski of Edmonton, he was a "contractor"and the owner of apartment houses, he had a building business. Mr. Majewski (May) was active in the mining business, he is an intelligent man and attending Polish activities. The interviewer suggests that there was a huge difference between the first and second wave migrants. Mr. Liss corroborates that. The first wave migrants came from Galicia, were illiterates. In the second wave, there were no people in sheep skins, there was a difference in clothing, and the majority of them settled in cities. The first wave migrants wanted re-migrate and buy additional land in the old country. Mr. Liss recalled how he went from Athabasca 700 Miles by foot with a backpack. He supported himself by hunting and cooked the game in a pan. He bought bread in stores, it was in 1912. He didn't meet any other Poles on the way, but he met at the East River a man called Peters (a Latvian). That man was in Russian service as a sailor, he was good athlete and swimmer, he helped him, pulled him out of the East River when they crossed the river, saved his life. Peters was a Bolshevik, Liss was a social democrat. Peters was the most ardent Bolshevik - Liss thinks that the man is identical with Jakov Peters, a Latvian revolutionary (he saw his photograph in a newspaper). They walked together for one week.
When was the farm founded? In 1915 but he arrived in 1912. His father joined him from Calgary. He built a stable for horses. Later, he went to a soldier's camp at Niagara Lake. What was his most important success among his activities? To support his family. He planted trees at this farm, explains his attachment to the soil with his family history, he had found some documents in the archives of Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Mr. Liss continues to talk about cooperative stores and the building of grain elevators. The farmers were at the mercy of large enterprises, they acted in self-defense. They were also at the mercy of large dairies. In the 1920s and at the beginning of the 1930s he founded cooperatives in the whole county, he organized the delivery of flour and apples. He was the only Pole, there were not many Poles in the area, and those who lived there were not interested. They came later, after WW I. There were also some Galician Poles, 7-8 Polish, some sent their children to higher education. They laugh at the American Polonia sitting in their ghetto. Mr. Liss thinks about the Polish Jokes: Many Poles are limited, they don't have ambitions. Asked about the relationship between farmers of different national backgrounds, Mr. Liss states that many have the tendency to 'clannishness'. In mixed areas, with Hungarians, Latvians, Americans, Germans, people have to cooperate and help each other. Asked about the relationship between Poles and Ukrainians prior to WW I, Mr. Liss says that they were very amical. He learned very quickly the Ruthenian language, almost like a
Ukrainian. The visited each other's church at holidays. The interviewer asks why the relationship became so hostile afterwards, in the 1920s and 1930s? The Ukrainians did everything to give their children an education, the Poles did this only later. But there was a
feeling of superiority - I'm Polish and he's Ukrainian. The Ukrainians from Galicia brought hostility towards Poles, there was much propaganda. Any reactions of the Poles? There were no organizations, they ignored it. In a slaughter house in Edmonton where many Poles worked there, the Ukrainians were hostile. It was the same in mines. With Slovakians it was easier but with Ukrainians unbearable. What was the role of Greek Catholic and Orthodox priests? Mr. Liss had no contacts. During WW I, in 1914/15, there were Tsarist agents who disseminated Russophile propaganda among Orthodox Bukovinians. Mr. Liss spoke Russian as he went to a Russian school for 2 years. Who did Sangudo look like? At the beginning a railroad was built in 1912. The hamlet didn't exist, but a few houses - a store and a post office. The inhabitants: Americans of different descend (Swedish, Scottish, English, German). In 1914 there was no train station. The foreman was a Kashubian called Dietz. He collected money for a Polish church with him. In 1912, Dietz' nephew called Piesik (from North Dakota) founded an insurance firm, his Polish was weak. Poles were meeting there, the Parochial committee had its seat there.